In Artistic Value of Thriller [via JS], “Scorpeze” writes that many overlook Michael Jackson’s role as a songwriter and producer on his landmark albums and tend to overestimate Quincy Jones’ role. The post includes links to demos (Billie Jean, The Girl Is Mine) that MJ created for those records. Assuming they’re legit, it’s pretty amazing how close they are to the final product.
From a biz/marketing perspective, it’s also interesting to note how many risks MJ took on Thriller. There were so many things on there that people said you couldn’t do on a R&B record. But he did ‘em anyway and created the biggest selling album of all time.
people glaze over it now…but what soul/R&B figure could create a hit rock record that was embraced across the board…AND considered authentic by the rock audience?(the snobs may have been pissed off, but they werent the ones buying the records)…what soul/R&B cat was collaborating with Van Halen….and have it WORK?
it wasnt Prince….w/out Beat It, could you have a Let’s Go Crazy?
what other soul/R&B cat could get one of the Beatles on Black radio in the 80’s?
what soul/R&B cat would get Vincent Price to drop spoken word in the middle a funk/R&B cut cum horror movie?
who was else at the time was incorporating African chants and percussion at a time when everyone was whitening it up sonically(including MJ)…and who would reference Soul Makossa in the 80’s?
listen to the fact that a Black artist who was considered strictly soul/R&B decided to do a stylistic tour de force in one album when it hadnt been done before…
Thriller had: Funk straight R&B Quiet Storm MOR Pop Rock
…all in one album by a Black aritst when such a thing was not only unheard of but frowned upon…..
futhermore, on Thriller he spoke abt teen preganancy, gang violence, challenging the social constructs of manhood, the culture of gossip, emotional blackmail, obsession, false accusations of paternity, and belief in one’s self…
fluff?
these are ARTISTIC RISKS….they could have gone horribly awry, but they didnt….he did the record HIS way….and in a rare occurence that we will only see once in a lifetime, hit the bulls-eye and pleased EVERYBODY…the effects of that had both deep positive and negative effects on his work and the entire music industry after that….
Looking back, it all seems perfectly logical. It’s easy to forget how much of a singular vision it took to pull off that unique combo of ideas.
John Q. Public
on 29 Jun 09In life he only touched small children, but in death he touches us all.
MT Heart
on 29 Jun 09He also left a design legacy – patented anti-gravity shoes as seen on the Smooth Criminal video.
http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/product_design/michael_jacksons_design_legacy_patented_antigravity_shoes_120102.asp
MT Heart
on 29 Jun 09Forget the link…
http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/product_design/michael_jacksons_design_legacy_patented_antigravity_shoes_120102.asp
Hari Rajagopal
on 29 Jun 09I don’t believe he would have thought of them as risks. He did them because he strongly felt he had to. There was this “force” exuding as passion that just speaks through his music and dance. That’s the key.
If you are analyzing the pros and cons and weighing the risks, you probably don’t have that force.
Cutter
on 29 Jun 09Don’t forget putting largely unknown Stevie Ray Vaughn in for licks on a few tracks as well.
Michael
on 29 Jun 09@ Hari Rajagopal
This is so true. An artist of Jackson’s caliber probably never thought twice about the business implications of something like putting a Vincent Price breakdown on his album. Having that song around your entire life (I was pretty young when it was released) you don’t tend to analyze details like that because that song was always huge but when you think about it….getting Vincent Price to do your breakdown is pretty weird!
Josh
on 29 Jun 09Heard two MJ anecdotes that sounded very SvN over the weekend.
1. MJ told people he’d never put up framed gold/platinum albums in his home because he didn’t want to be placated by past success.
2. When creating Thriller, his goal was to create the greatest album of all time. He aimed high, set the most audacious of expectations, and worked from there.
I can’t speak to their veracity, but they helped me think more about how great success is a product of planning, design, intelligence, passion – not just something that happens by luck or coincidence (Gladwell’s Outliers is coming to mind as I type this).
Joe Grossberg
on 29 Jun 09I think we’re giving short shrift to his collaborators.
For example: MJ only wrote four of the nine songs on Thriller.
Quincy Jones’s production was fantastic, and John Landis produced and co-wrote the epic “Thriller” video.
MJ accomplished a lot, but he hardly did it alone.
on the other hand ...[/flamebait] ;)Joe Grossberg
on 29 Jun 09I think we’re giving short shrift to his collaborators.
For example: MJ only wrote four of the nine songs on Thriller.
Quincy Jones’s production was fantastic, and John Landis produced and co-wrote the epic “Thriller” video.
MJ accomplished a lot, but he hardly did it alone.
[flamebait] Prince, on the other hand … [/flamebait] ;)
JJ
on 29 Jun 09Today I listened to an unheard recording of ‘Earth Song’that Bruce Swedien, (MJs sound engineer on Thriller and other albums) sent me and without a doubt Michael was a genius in on the stage, but in the studio he was even more amazing.
Michael did things in a studio you weren’t supposed to do while singing…he would clap, snap his fingers in the palm of his hand, etc and all of those gestures, and movements can be FELT in his recordings. He may not have changed the world that some of you live in, but he changed mine and inspired me to do what I’m most passionate about in life.
‘Man In The Mirror’, JJ
BradM
on 29 Jun 09Came across this link of a (Home Demo) of BJ. This one is pretty raw as I think he’s actually writing the song while recording in this version. Still though, he was on pace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM9ejVNkOpY&feature=related
Kevin McDonagh
on 29 Jun 09I may be wrong, but although the recording was made within his home studio there is every chance that Quincy may have taken a hand within the production playing/mixing Guitars and synths. When I am collaborating we will share ideas and contribute findings where ever we happen to be located. It is hard to identify the individual contributions of Thriller contributors but one thing is for sure is that the end product resulted from a talented bunch, working very well together. I’m sure there were a lot of late nights in the studio involved.
Nathan
on 29 Jun 09Immediate irrelevance due to too many uses of the word ‘cat’.
BradM
on 29 Jun 09From Wikipedia Jackson reunited with Off the Wall producer Quincy Jones to record his sixth studio album. The pair worked together on 300 songs, nine of which were eventually included.[17] Thriller was recorded between April and November of 1982, with a production budget of $750,000. Several members of the band Toto were also involved in the album’s recording and production.[17] Jackson wrote four songs for the record: “Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’”, “The Girl Is Mine” (with Paul McCartney), “Beat It” and “Billie Jean”.[18] Unlike many artists, Jackson did not write these songs on paper. Instead, he would dictate into a sound recorder; when recording he would sing from memory
Tim
on 30 Jun 09QUINCY and MICHAEL both took risks with the record. It’s unfair to say it was “all Michael’s”. True there’s songs he wrote on his own but Quincy helped to integrate Michael’s ideas. Teamwork was the result of “Thriller”.
Cartoon Slinger
on 30 Jun 09His entire life was a media circus, and the man(?) was no stranger to risks. One look at his face would tell you that.
Elson
on 30 Jun 09As a singer, songwriter, musician and producer, I definitely regard “Thriller” as one of the greatest musical works of all time, not just due to MJ’s magic, but to the synergistic contributions of Quincy Jones’ genius, engineer Bruce Swedien’s skills, songwriter Rod Temperton’s craft, and the chops of all of the session musicians.
Quincy’s production methods from this era have been a huge influence on me and my music.
I do think though that ironically the success of “Thriller” partly went to MJ’s head, and fueled his eccentricity. When he was still working on “Thriller” he was a little more down-to-earth, and more focused as a music artist. But after that, it became more about image and stardom, by all of its definitions.
Though I consider myself more of a Stevie Wonder type, you’re correct, yes this album did take risks and changed pop music forever. And not just due to MJ’s genius, but the way music is disseminated in today’s download world, there will never be another “Thriller.”
Anonymous Coward
on 30 Jun 09@Josh:
That sounds very anti-37s to me. They always stress how their products are created from a need they have – solve their own problems and (to stretch it a bit) not care if it solves anyone elses problem. To set out to make the best anything is to set other peoples needs first.
The only way that is more risky than what 37s is doing is if you are completely wrong about what other people want – then you will have created nothing.
Omar
on 30 Jun 09Not only that MJ was pretty much the guy who invented the directed and cool video clip there was none before him that had a story and where actually fun to watch
Derek Scruggs
on 30 Jun 09I think this is going a little far. Thriller’s a great album and all, but Funkadelic did pretty much all these things in the 70s. They were really the first to blend the Beatles with funk, particularly the post-Peppers sensibility.
Oh and Orson Wells did spoken word on a heavy metal album, of all things.
cecil
on 01 Jul 09“In retrospect, all revolutions seem inevitable. Beforehand, all revolutions seem impossible.” -Michael McFaul
MJ was an immense entertainer, probably the greatest of the music industry ever. But IMHO he was a bit shallow as an artist. Not a Prince, Marvin Gaye or Stevie Wonder.
His genius with Thriller was to be a full match of what the early 80s people was waiting for in terms of pop culture.
This discussion is closed.