26 Jun 2003 | Darrel said...

That's why I hate most companies.

;o)

26 Jun 2003 | Darrel said...

Oh...here's a recent example of my own.

I have an old stucco house. Needed to replace a window.

So, we order a window sans brick-moulding because, as I and the reseller point out, I'll need to put in my own brick-moulding since I have a non-standard size window opening.

Windows get orders (from Marvin). Nice windows. Get everything put together. Get the brick-moulding up. Pull out the screens. Notice that they attach to the brick moulding.

Damn it.

Call my distributor. "They don't take returns on screens. It'll only cost you $40 or so to get new ones."

%$@#!

Email Marvin pointing out that there was really was no way for them to make screens since they had no idea what size the brick moulding was and shoudl have had someone NOTICE THAT FACT.

Their response: "We don't accept returns. You'll have to order new screens."

Two emails later, no more responses.

*sigh*

Again, that's why I hate most companies.

26 Jun 2003 | Don Schenck said...

As usual, it all comes down to morality. Their actions are morally wrong. Deceit is wrong.

26 Jun 2003 | LukeW said...

Their actions are morally wrong. Deceit is wrong.

And so is the customer.

26 Jun 2003 | JF said...

Good example: Last month I signed up with Verizon Wireless and went with an 800 anytime minute plan. A few weeks ago, I realized that I was going to go way over the 800 minute limit (which was going to cost me an extra $200). I called Verizon to switch to a 1500 anytime minute plan so I wouldn't run into this overage starting next month. Normally, I'd be stuck with the extra charges that I'd already incurred, but they were very cool about it and basically set me up as if I always had the 1500 minute plan. This saved me $200, a lot of headache, and filled my head with positive Verizon vibes. Well done, Verizon. I'm a very very satisfied customer.

26 Jun 2003 | Dan James said...

We had a similar bump in with IBM earlier this year and it was a MUCH larger discrepancy in price. We prevailed and won the battle. I somehow got a free scanner out of it too.

26 Jun 2003 | ~bc said...

Dell... Easy as Dell?

Service? Like Hell!

That's why I hate most corporations, too. Humanity is terribly underrated by beancounters.

26 Jun 2003 | fajalar said...

The difference is companies who are in business to make money versus in business to make customers.

Situations like this (well the bad ones, not JFs good one:) are why I send my wife in. I'm too much like the person that gives up after 1 to 2 tries. My wife goes in and somehow, after one try, will get us stuff for free.

Don't le tthem get away with anything. If it takes more than 4 tires, keep trying. Eventually you will get a sympathetic CS rep.

26 Jun 2003 | Don Schenck said...

LukeW -- What?

26 Jun 2003 | Guan Yang said...

LukeW is referring to the fact that the customer is always wrong. :-)

26 Jun 2003 | Ben Langhinrichs said...

I know that as an ISV, it is hard sometimes to see things from the point of view of the customer, but it is critical to do so. I like the comment "The difference is companies who are in business to make money versus in business to make customers."

26 Jun 2003 | Bill Brown said...

I'll relate my experience with Dish Network. I was a customer of theirs for eight years. I am now a happy DirecTV customer.

I ordered a DishPVR, the only TiVO-like device EchoStar offers. After a week, I called to inquire about its status. I was told that the system was down when I first called and so no charges were made and nothing was shipped. I asked when they were planning to tell me about this. No response except it's policy. I asked to go ahead and start over.

We started over, made the charges, and called a week later to find out they weren't sure if I wanted it installed or just shipped. I told them the first time I would do my own installation, but apparently that didn't register. I asked when they were going to contact me since they had already taken my money. No response. I said send it to me now and asked how long to wait for it to come.

I called then and found out that it still hadn't shipped. This time there was no real reason. I told them to cancel my order, but they said to call back in 72 hours to see if it had shipped because they couldn't find out till then. Meanwhile, I sent in a long, two-page complaint letter that outlined the events and my frustration. Surprisingly, it was never answered or even acknowledged. So I cancelled my subscription to Dish Network over this.

Lo and behold, two days after the 72 hours my DishPVR arrives via overnight. I call and ask how to return it for a full refund. The idiot on the line says to just ship it back to the return address. I asked if I needed a return approval or anything. Nope, I was told, just send it back and we'll take care of everything. So I shipped it back and it never got credited back—of course. I called up after about a week and raised hell until I eventually got transferred to the office of the executive vice-president (took a few transfers, natch). They had read my email of two weeks ago. They needed a UPS tracking number to verify that they had received it. I called back next day with the info and eagerly awaited my credit, which never came.

Okay, this is getting long but here's the punchline to the whole affair. When I called back to complain about the lack of credit and to officially end all relations with Dish, I was told that the DishPVR I ordered carried with it a 12-month service agreement and that I would have to pay $200 for early termination of a service I never used and actively tried to cancel before it even shipped.

This is, by the way, the worst customer "experience" I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. I still haven't gotten my credit (I will today, though, or I'm flying up to Colorado and taking it out of Charlie Ergen's wallet myself) and I now actively hate Dish Network.

26 Jun 2003 | p8 said...

I don't know how it is in the US. But here in Holland supermarkets are notorious for charging regular prices for advertized products.

So for a "special offer for product X, normally 7.75 euro now 6.80 euro" they sometimes charge 7.75 euro.

You always have to check your receipts.

26 Jun 2003 | Benjy said...

These companies forget that we tell many more people when we have a bad experience than when we have a good one.

When we have a bad experience, they risk not just losing our business but also that of our friends, family, co-workers, etc.

The short-sighted save a buck today ends up costing them plenty down the road... but, often they only care about this quarter's financials.

26 Jun 2003 | Joshua Kaufman said...

You always have to check your receipts.

Or refuse to shop there ever again. Culture jamming isn't about compromise, it's about action.

26 Jun 2003 | p8 said...

Or refuse to shop there ever again.

The problem is they all seem to do it.

26 Jun 2003 | Ben Langhinrichs said...

I remember a studu conducted by a consumer rights group that went to major department store chains and major discount chains, and bought a variety of items. While the results differed, between 5% and 15% of items were charged at a different price than posted. They reported all findings to the stores, showed them the story they were doing, then went back in two weeks and over 80% of the "mistakes" were still there. If I recall correctly, only 2% of the mistakes saved the customer money.

26 Jun 2003 | p8 said...

...and the consumer looks like a cheapskate complaining about small change while the stores make a lot money doing this.

26 Jun 2003 | LukeW said...

Sure would be nice to have an online resource for the customer. That way you'd have some ammo, "Hey customer A got this price, I should get it too", or some guidance "Watch out Walmart is overcharging on product B", "I got the right price by doing C...".

Does something like this exist?

26 Jun 2003 | Darrel said...

Humanity is terribly underrated by beancounters.

That is a great comment! Sadly, it's very true.

26 Jun 2003 | scottmt said...

One time I caught AT&T in a lie, it was pretty satisfying, although it took all morning on the phone ... but I got an apology and a free jack installation.

I called to order a new cable jack install. My account was past due 20 bucks. The phone monkey lets me sign up for the install, telling me that they will be by saturday sometime from 9 to 5 or whatever. Saturday they dont show up, around noon I call to confirm. Phone monkey tells me there was never a jack install ordered. Confused I ask for a manager. Manager is rude (shocker!) and tells me that it is impossible for me to have signed up for a install with a past due account. Se insists that it is against company policy to sign me up when past due. I note her name and move on ..

I call AT&T several times in a row, each time the phone monkies let me sign up for an install, account still past due. I note their names (5 people in a row let me sign up, but then I told them I changed my mind). I ask for the manager I spoke to before. They tell me she's busy and can she call me back? I tell them I have all day and I will hold.

At least 1.5 hrs of holding, a few times I was disconnected while on hold and had to call back. I finally get her back on the phone. I remind her of our previous conversation, and ask her why she would lie to me. She says she didn't lie and I say either way I was misled and (drumroll) can I please talk to your supervisor! Another hour or so of holding, many times being asked for the new supervisor to call me back, but refusing, I get the Big Boss on the phone.

Big Boss is slightly less rude. She tells me that the various departments at ATT don't communicate very well. The phone monkies are apparently ruthless telemarketers bent on signing people up for anything, anytime. She says that they are not supposed to accept orders with past due accounts, althought they often (all the time?) do. What this has to do with me I wonder, after a brief triad on ATT not communicating very well internally, I tell her about my wasted morning and the if not deceiving than misleading info her employee gave me.

Apology, jack install charges waived, 1/2 of the day wasted!

who actually read all that?

26 Jun 2003 | JF said...

Sure would be nice to have an online resource for the customer. That way you'd have some ammo, "Hey customer A got this price, I should get it too", or some guidance "Watch out Walmart is overcharging on product B", "I got the right price by doing C..."

BiddingForTravel.com offers this service for Priceline deals.

26 Jun 2003 | MegaGrunt said...

Isn't there an Office of Fair Trading in the States?

Anyone tries the stunts listed above in the UK and their going to pay for it!

We also have a lot of reality TV programmes chasing up dodgy companies Watchdog (BBC) being one of the best, Builders From Hell being one of the most fun.

26 Jun 2003 | fajalar said...

Isn't there an Office of Fair Trading in the States?

bbb.org

I used the Better Business Bureau on an issue with Microsoft's Xbox. MS wouldn't talk with me until I involved the BBB, and after I did they they stumbled over themselves to correct the problem.

26 Jun 2003 | arthur said...

"I hate most companies"
"I hate corporations"
dimwits

26 Jun 2003 | said...

And that's the state of Customer Relationship Management.

26 Jun 2003 | John said...

Since I have spent a long time working as a "phone monkey" myself, I can sympathize with that group of people. In 99% of cases, we simply aren't empowered by management to do anything to rectify situations like this. And of course people get pissed off at us, yell at us, and blame us for their troubles, which doesn't help anything.

I sympathize with the customers, too, because I've been also screwed by companies I've dealt with, but many times there simply wasn't anything I could do for them. And I've been the victim of "poor internal communication" where the company's various departments transfer callers amongst themselves in a vicious repeat cycle because no one really seems to know what department handles what. Customer disservice is generally a disaster from the top down.

The one company I worked for that really had a grasp on good customer service and actually empowered the people answering the phones to solve problems for customers was a dot-com that ended up running out of money. It didn't deserve to die!

26 Jun 2003 | Cade Roux said...

slightly off-topic: slickdeals.net

26 Jun 2003 | Michael Spina said...

I had an experience with Sears. I ordered carpet from them, and they contract with independant installers. They told me when the carpet I ordered was in, the installer would contact to set up a time. Enough time went by, so I called the installer myself to see what was up. He said it should be coming in within a few days, and we made an appointment.

Meanwhile, I move every piece of furniture out of the affected rooms, taking a day off of work to do this. I then find out by contacting the installer to confirm the night before the install, that there is no carpet.

Sears has left the carpet business. They never thought to contact customers, or even their installer!

The good news is, I ended up getting 10% off of anything in the store, plus got a sale price before the sale started, and I made good use of it. But I did have to talk to the store manager and district manager to get it straightened out. I probably could have gotten more, but I didn't feel like pressing it.

I realize companies make mistakes. It's how they deal with them that makes good customer service.

26 Jun 2003 | Don Schenck said...

True story:

Woman I know in my area drives about 40 miles to shop at Nordstrom's. Gets home, discovers that the ink tag -- that plastic security device that spills ink if you don't use a special tool to remove it -- is still on the dress.

She calls the store. Tells the clerk.

Hour later, a Nordstrom's rep is at her front door with the special tool in hand.

THAT, my friend, is why Nordstrom's wrote the book on Customer Service.

26 Jun 2003 | Ron Zeno said...

Know your rights, especially applicable rights of rescission. Purchasing with credit cards may give you further rights or make it easier to enforce those you have.

26 Jun 2003 | Darrel said...

dimwits

Poor brainwashed soul.

It's how they deal with them that makes good customer service.

Very true. I never have a problem with a company making a mistake. It's when they decide it's not their problem that things go downhill...

26 Jun 2003 | benry said...

Actually, the price is now $466 -- looks like you're really gonna need to yell at somebody.

26 Jun 2003 | dmr said...

It's customer contingency design! Somebody needs to start Customer Service Not Found.

27 Jun 2003 | Netizen Kane said...

AT&T Wireless cut off my cellular service this week for non-payment. One problem: I paid the bill via Visa check card last week.

Why was the bill unpaid? Because when I upgraded my phone and service, they changed the account #, although nothing else. I pay my bills via Yahoo! bill pay, and my payments were being applied to my old account #, not my new one.

I ask phone monkey, "So, you have my one account that's been deactivated but receiving payments and another that's activated but not receiving payments, and no one thought to apply my payments to this new account #?"

The response? "There's no way for us to know you have two different accounts with us, sir."

Four days later, my service is disconnected again. Call to complain and to get it reinstated. They "have no record of the payment." Woman agrees to reinstate my service before my cell phone drops the call.

Call back. Get new operator. No record of prior conversation or, of course, payment. Explain situation second time. Call is dropped.

Call back third time from landline. Am now very angry. Tell phone monkey I need my service reinstated. Tells me I first need to prove I've paid my bill. I respond, "No, you'll reinstate my service first, because this is your mistake." Tells me my other option is to make another payment. I say, "I'm not paying you twice for your mistake." Says he cannot, then, reinstate my service.

Tell him I need to speak to his supervisor. Am told, "I'm telling you the exact thing my supervisor will tell you." I say, "Then why did the first woman I speak with offer to reinstate my service?" Am put on hold for 20 minutes before hanging up and calling back.

Finally get someone resembling a human. Explain situation and offer to email a PDF of my online bank statement to prove payment. Can't do that; office of payment discrepancy research only accepts faxes. But woman reinstates service. I ask how long before the research office can resolve this matter. It takes 10-14 days. How long will my service reinstatement last? She can't say.

"So," I say, "I could lose my cell service again before this is over?"

"I've made a note on the account, so let's hope not," she says. "But if it is, call back, and they should be able to find the note." If they cannot keep track of an electronic transfer of funds from Bank of America, I have little hope their electronic journal entries are adequately archived.

Of course, I can't "get rid" of AT&T because of a $200 "early contract termination" fee in effect 'til March 2004.

Are companies like AT&T becoming so enormous they cannot service customers with even minor problems? Or is a certain amount of "churn" economically factored in and thus "acceptable"?

And when's the last time you paid full boat for something at Nordstroms, simply to pay for that extra wage that buys the better service from better employees? I can happily say it was only a couple of months ago, and I love my red suede Ponys.

Can't someone use consumer rage, Internet immediacy, and some good ol' grassroots sensibilities to disrupt businesses like this? When are we all going to get mad as Hell and decide not to take it anymore?

27 Jun 2003 | Mathew said...

Somebody needs to start Customer Service Not Found.

Australians can check out Not Good Enough for a similar service.

27 Jun 2003 | eNormicom said...

Corps aren't all bad unless people aren all bad. Corps are just people.

28 Jun 2003 | Tim said...

Check out www.corpwatch.org if you are interested in tracking corporate misbehavior.

On my hit list: Walgreens. Back in 1999, the Kahiki Supper Club restaurant in Columbus OH was rumored to be for sale. This was one of the original polynesian restaurants -- really quite unreal -- and was on the national register of historic places because of it's unique historic significance to post-WWII culture. Later, Walgreens was rumored to be the buyer, but they claimed to have a policy against tearing down historic buildings to build drugstores. One of their public affairs flacks even told me so via email. Then when it turned out that they were the buyer, the word on the street was that they said the restaurant "wasn't historic enough."

Check out the photos to get a sense of what was lost:
http://www.kahiki.com/aloha.cfm

29 Jun 2003 | Netizen Kane said...

Tim, what a shame. It boggles the mind how, given its raft of awards and the mere fact that it was the first freestanding Polynesian restaurant in the U.S., Walgreens would reverse themselves.

I've just moved within L.A. and was grappling with whether or not to change my pharmacy. Previously, a Walgreens was located just down the street and was convenient for me. I considered keeping them (they're still near my work) but after reading this, the business is going to the new Sav-On going up down the road (unless, of course, I find them on corpwatch). And so Walgreens knows why, I'm going to fire off an email after the deed is done. Corporations need to know their actions carry repercussions with educated consumers, or they'll never change.

30 Jun 2003 | Marco said...

Method A:

She calls the store. Tells the clerk.
Hour later, a Nordstrom's rep is at her front door with the special tool in hand.
THAT, my friend, is why Nordstrom's wrote the book on Customer Service.

---

Method B:

I meet a fellow who works for a warranty consulting company. He tells me they advise all corporations to write in at least four steps in the claim procedure. His rationale: Most people give up after four tries.

---

I (want to) believe in customer service. If I had my own company I wish to point all to customer service. But I have a question (and sorry if it seems banal): which of the two methods (see examples above) is economically better? If so many companies are using the "Most people give up after four tries" method this doesn't mean that the "good customer service" method is economically worse?

30 Jun 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Marco -- look at it this way: She has told her story of Nordstrom'm superb customer service over and over and over. And we are repeating it.

Can't buy that.

30 Jun 2003 | p8 said...

And as an old marketing saying goes:
"it's a lot harder to gain a new customer than to keep one"